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Build finished just snagging to do) - 2/1/2010 8:11:06 PM   
69cou


Posts: 101
Joined: 30/12/2009
From: Kent nr Maidstone
Status: online 		/DUE TO CHANGE OF LOCATION OF POND SCROLL DOWN TO POST 18 FOR UPDATE AND LATEST PALNS- WILL LEAVE THE REST AS USEFUL TO HIGHLIGHT PROBLEMS IF CONSIDERING A BUILD TOO NEAR THE HOUSE.



Hi

Just a quick intro.

Firstly can apolgise for the 'how do i' and 'should i do this' below just seen admin notes so am in edit, however this will be a build taking place very shortley with digging likely to start initially on Wednesday this week.

Larger pictures in second post below>

I also want to do the build in line with everyones thoughts so you can all be involved if you want. Hopefully this will help me avoid costly mistakes. As a small garden with limits on pond location I am a little concerned on keeping within building regulations as will need to be quite close to house and boundary fence. Also how do I do drainge in line with building regs?



This is my second leap into Koi keeping having moved home some 6 years ago and now kids are of an age where may be safe to do so. I will still install a metal safty grid if possible .

My build window is End January as having been made redundant at Christmas and having a month + on garden leave this gives me some time to now do a build and keep myself busy. Plan is to try and do build during Febuary with tidying off in early part of March and being up and running for late March (Early Spring). I am going to try and get as much as I can second hand as need to watch budget since technically out of work although I hope to get a new job by March.

Please give me your thoughts on any or all of the following:

1) Pond Build - Idea is to use a box liner.
2) Filteration
3) Order to introduce fish

I will try and take some pictures as I go and of the site area to highlight possible location restraints and consideration.


Pond Build


Plan is for pond approx 9ft by 6ft (Possibly 7ft) and 6.5ft deep. So a little over 2000 gallons. (As near to 3000 gallons if I can avoid any snags as I will be building quite close to house.) Two foot from corner wall however need to see what drainge pipes run where in the garden.


Larger picture below.

Any advise on issues of digging down near house?


Ground wise the aim is that I make a 1ft square concrete collar at ground level. And dig down below a further 3ft. thus 4 feet below ground. ( 5ft would be nice however am worried about digging too deep near house foundations. Any thoughts?
Again larger picture below in next post.



Above ground, Initial idea was to is build this with rows of new railway sleepers , Bottom laid flat followed by 3 laid upright and cap with sleepers laid on sides. I know this means only a 4" thick wall however plan to help secure upright posts to pegola which could be fully set into concreate collar below ground at 2 ft distance from corners (Thus 5ft span on pond long sides) max. and can also brace with 4" square uprights.

Will this hold back the water or am I being too optimistic?

Alternative will be block and brick from the ground level if above just will not work. My wife will be oh so nervious about my brick work skills!!! If doing brick and block do you recomend 6" deep blochs so i can do a single row?



Filtration

I have already picked up a second hand easy pod and also a compact sieve and have a few bits and pieces such as a new wall skimmer. ( Please advise on best way to disinfect all second hand equipment - Thinking potasium permanganate as i do not want to risk contaminting a new set up)

Now looking out for other bits. Filter footprint size is an issue as small garden.

Thoughts so far :

1) Bottom Drain gravity fed to Easy Pod this then going to an OASE aqua max 10000/12000 feeding a bubble bead such as the PB85 (Aquadyne would be favoured however most likely well out of budget and do not seem to come up second hand often) then to a UV and back to pond via two returns say 8inches below surface. ( May look to add a fluid bed filter as well for extra bacterial capacity, these were the rage 7 years ago and hopefully now some reliable ones are on the market?) Filter nhousing too the right of the pond between Maple and outline so I have acess.

2) Skimmer at opposite end of pond ( Left )pumped with someting like an aqua max 5000 to Compact Sieve that will need to be positioned above pond as some form of water fall return. Thought is somehow boxing this into some form of bamboo casing. Unfortunatly cannot gravity feed Compact Sieve.


Number of KOI and order to introduce

Aim is to re-house some of my original high quality Koi which have been living in a natural clay garden pond for the last six years. ( Seven/Eight Koi between 18” and 24”) and also buy a few 1 or 2 year old large KOI. So looking at perhaps 12 large Koi. As my existing have been well winter hardened etc. in a natural large pond , would you buy new fish first and acclimatise them for say 6 weeks before adding some of my originals perhaps in 2s or 3s at a time again say 6 weeks apart to allow for filters to mature. Or add original fish first and add new fish in the summer when filters and pond more mature.


< Message edited by 69cou -- 13/6/2010 11:22:45 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: New pond build through Jan/Feb whilst on Garden Leave - 4/1/2010 2:05:59 PM   
69cou


Posts: 101
Joined: 30/12/2009
From: Kent nr Maidstone
Status: online 		OK first pictures to give you an idea of location.

To give an idea on size each payio slab is 24" by 18"
You will see first likely issue is build is to be 24" from corner of house. Also need to investigate if drain pipe just goes to a soak away or if likely to have drainage under planed area for pond.



The following is an ariel view of garden. As you can see quite small so need to keep pond in reasonable proportion to make look OK and keep family happy.



Further ariel view of where pond is planned.



Outline of 7ft by 10ft pond side to outer walls. Thus if six inch blocks rather than sleepers would give me 6ft by 9ft internal.



Area to left of image would be for pipe work from a Skimmer/ Compact Sieve /Electrics / Future Trickle Tower or future developments.
Area to the right between Pond outline and maple tree would be where i plan to put filter housing.

(in reply to 69cou)
Post #: 2
RE: New pond build through Jan/Feb whilst on Garden Leave - 4/1/2010 6:15:14 PM   
KOI_BOY


Posts: 535
Joined: 27/9/2009
From: Hertfordshire
Status: offline 		looks good mate, i bet you cant wait to start.

Keep us informed of your progress

Cheers
Ellis




_____________________________

My Pond Build (Completed april 2010);

KK10,000 Filter Bay, Aquamax 8000, Aquamax 5500, 4" B/D, Cloverleaf 55w UV & In-Wall Skimmer, Elecro 4kw heater, Hiblow 90, Hiblow 30.
My pond Build: http://forum.koimag.co.uk/tm.asp?m=442090&mpage=1&key=񫻪

(in reply to 69cou)
Post #: 3
RE: New pond build through Jan/Feb whilst on Garden Leave - 4/1/2010 6:41:58 PM   
bigmel


Posts: 7262
Joined: 23/3/2008
From: CHESHIRE
Status: offline 		Hi Piere

I put a concrete collar under my sleeper pond , i just went 2 sleepers high and the concrete collar was 14 " x 5 " approx .

Your proposed 1 foot square sounds better , but mines not moved in 18 months . I used threaded rods to tie the layers together .
Mines 2700 gallons and a total of 4 feet deep.
Hope this helps


[image][/image]

[image][/image]

< Message edited by bigmel -- 4/1/2010 6:43:22 PM >

_____________________________

Don,t try and keep up with the Jones , drag them down to your level ...its cheaper .

(in reply to KOI_BOY)
Post #: 4
RE: New pond build through Jan/Feb whilst on Garden Leave - 4/1/2010 7:41:27 PM   
dazzafjr1300

 

Posts: 656
Joined: 25/1/2009
From: ipswich
Status: offline 		nice size pond for the size of garden but you have not marked out the footprint for the filters or are you piping them in shed else were to keep garden space as these will need a small filter house built behind the fence on side of house

< Message edited by dazzafjr1300 -- 4/1/2010 7:42:07 PM >

(in reply to bigmel)
Post #: 5
RE: New pond build through Jan/Feb whilst on Garden Leave - 4/1/2010 9:10:38 PM   
69cou


Posts: 101
Joined: 30/12/2009
From: Kent nr Maidstone
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: dazzafjr1300

nice size pond for the size of garden but you have not marked out the footprint for the filters or are you piping them in shed else were to keep garden space as these will need a small filter house built behind the fence on side of house



Have not marked out yet as likely to be split as per this drawing.


Most likely have Skimmer towards rear wall and flow back to pond from Sieve towards front. . Sort of imagine these swapping places on drawing.

Idea is for Filter box lids + doors to be covered with Bamboo sheet. and also same for fence behind pond.



Not sure if will be filter housing will be brick/block constructed yet?

(in reply to dazzafjr1300)
Post #: 6
RE: New pond build through Jan/Feb whilst on Garden Leave - 6/1/2010 8:59:17 PM   
69cou


Posts: 101
Joined: 30/12/2009
From: Kent nr Maidstone
Status: online 		No digging started today - Looks like tomorrow is going to be a wipe out as well as more snow expected overnight.
If weather does not improve very soon my wife will be pushing for me to start on her list of tasks.

Great I thought garden leave was about my time.

List so far - decorating the kitchen. ( Think that would be about 3 days minimum)

- Hire carpet cleaner and do all carpets.



6th Jan update - Good news is I now have a PB85 on way to me. I need some new media if anyone has any spare lying around.


(in reply to 69cou)
Post #: 7
RE: New pond build through Jan/Feb whilst on Garden Leave - 8/1/2010 3:11:28 PM   
roselanekoi

 

Posts: 246
Joined: 14/12/2008
Status: offline 		Looking at where you're planning to locate the pond close to the house, before you start digging the pond, dig a trial hole to see where the down pipe goes as there must be a drain there somewhere. 

You say you have an existing clay pond so I assume the ground is clay, but I'd still be very concerned about digging a hole 4ft deep so close to the house and possibly undermining the house foundations.  It may be safer to put the filter bay closest to the house with the pond a bit further away.

Colin    

(in reply to 69cou)
Post #: 8
RE: New pond build through Jan/Feb whilst on Garden Leave - 8/1/2010 7:37:25 PM   
69cou


Posts: 101
Joined: 30/12/2009
From: Kent nr Maidstone
Status: online 		Clay Pond is at neighbours of inlaws in Surrey, I am in Kent. My soil seems to be just a mixture of sand and rubble. ( New build property 6 years ago)

Hopefully the following will explain why i was thinking main filter bay needed to be to the right of the pond.

Excuse the very bad editing to sort of show plan on photo.

You will see on photo I have put in where 1 ft collar would be dug in "Red" outline. The deeper dig is within this so would be 3ft from corner of the house. Patio slabs are 18" wide byh two foot long if that helps give a scale. well.

Yellow on right of picture shows where I really think mains water drains run between property under garden as neighbour has a man hole in line on her side of the fence, I also have the same in line on the other side of my garden, under the patio heater. In addition all my bathrooms and further man holes are on that side of house.


You will see from below if I am correct why I felt was as far as i could take pond away from house and why I thought filter bays that side. Even a possibility of tapping into mains drain pipe for waste from filters? The filters would be raised slightly so ounly digging in this area would be to return from bottm drain and then somehow connecting waste.

I am hoping gutter drain pipes which are on both sides of the house go shortest route to into neighbours main drains as like mine or parallel to house. Alternatively connect together over to my side.



Not sure if i have made this any clearer. Would local council have copy of drainage layout? If not i suppose it will be a case of digging carefully to find out. I wanted to avaid upseting any of the ground nest to the house as far as I could.

Things are never simple. The only good news about this spot is it will be easy to get electrics to and also I fitted an outside tap in this area so have a water supply.

(in reply to roselanekoi)
Post #: 9
RE: New pond build through Jan/Feb whilst on Garden Leave - 8/1/2010 10:24:08 PM   
69cou


Posts: 101
Joined: 30/12/2009
From: Kent nr Maidstone
Status: online 		One alternative thought I am having is to dig down where I suspect mains drain runs under garden ( I think this is approx 2ft or 2ft 6" from where I planed the pond. Could i dig trench next to it and go down 5Ft put foundation in 1ft Sqaure and build retaining wall. Thus if every thing moves over by 2-2ft 6" then put all filters other side.


Once again sorry for bad graphics all marked in red would be underground work. This would mean a further distance between house foundations and pond dig. Main depth being 6ft away from corner of house.



Your thoughts?? May be a shame if I ineed to uproot maple tree as will be going down close to roots by moving build over by 2ft ish.

Could i send wast from filters to drain pipe as well?

Thanks



< Message edited by 69cou -- 10/1/2010 9:18:50 AM >

(in reply to 69cou)
Post #: 10
RE: New pond build through Jan/Feb whilst on Garden Leave - 9/1/2010 9:23:35 AM   
roselanekoi

 

Posts: 246
Joined: 14/12/2008
Status: offline 		From all your sketches can I suggest that you find out exactly where the drains are before you go any further.  It's better to find them now rather than when you start your excavation.  There should be a couple of MH's on the drain run,  perhaps in a neighbours garden or at the end of the row.   Regardless of the depth of the drain you shouldn't build your pond over a main drain.

If your ground is sandy then be very careful of undermining your house foundations.  For safety, the edge of your excavation should be twice as far from the house as the depth you pond is below ground level.  If you've got a high water table and your excavation starts going into wet sand then get a groundworks expert in to have a look at the conditions.

With regard to piping your waste to the drain, the water authority don't look kindly on waste water being connected to a surface water drain so it wants to go into the foul sewer. 

Colin 

(in reply to 69cou)
Post #: 11
RE: New pond build through Jan/Feb whilst on Garden Leave - 9/1/2010 9:28:22 AM   
chris11579


Posts: 4394
Joined: 13/8/2008
From: wigan
Status: offline 		your wast water you should be able to pump it on to your garden and use it to water your plants
mine love it last year as it feeds them as well.

_____________________________

http://www.holmeswoodkoi.co.uk/Categories/Home.aspx

(in reply to roselanekoi)
Post #: 12
RE: New pond build through Jan/Feb whilst on Garden Leave - 9/1/2010 9:30:18 AM   
finchys koi

 

Posts: 286
Joined: 3/3/2008
From: cirencester
Status: offline 		hi m8 nothing is ever easy but is there any reason why you can not turn your pond round 180 degrees this then would give you another 3 ft to play with just a thought

(in reply to roselanekoi)
Post #: 13
RE: New pond build through Jan/Feb whilst on Garden Leave - 10/1/2010 12:30:03 AM   
69cou


Posts: 101
Joined: 30/12/2009
From: Kent nr Maidstone
Status: online 		Thanks guys

Thinking through one by one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: roselanekoi

From all your sketches can I suggest that you find out exactly where the drains are before you go any further. It's better to find them now rather than when you start your excavation. There should be a couple of MH's on the drain run, perhaps in a neighbours garden or at the end of the row. Regardless of the depth of the drain you shouldn't build your pond over a main drain.

If your ground is sandy then be very careful of undermining your house foundations. For safety, the edge of your excavation should be twice as far from the house as the depth you pond is below ground level. If you've got a high water table and your excavation starts going into wet sand then get a groundworks expert in to have a look at the conditions.

With regard to piping your waste to the drain, the water authority don't look kindly on waste water being connected to a surface water drain so it wants to go into the foul sewer.

Colin



I am going to lift man holes initially to see which way water flows which will confirm if i am right in where i expect drains to be running. In addition I will check with local authority, who should have drainage plans.

House is quite high above water table as we are surrounded by lakes which are at least 25ft below our ground level.

With regard to build towards house I will need to give this a bit more thought.

Would a slope in bottom of pond help. Thus only go down 3Ft total on left ( Six feet from house) going to 5ft deep on right (15ft away from house). All assuming obviously no drainage/waste pipes run under planned area.

The 5 Ft wall would be the pond wall built with making sure mains drain is to the outside of pond.
The original ideas of concreate collar was to minimise ground movement. This means I would be tying to tie in collor to block wall on right.

This would mean moving bottom drain to deepest part of pond. I am assuming a bottom drain with pipiwork having a slight angle upwards would not be a problem. ( As flow rate will be a little under be approx 10,000 liters p/h) would you go for 3" pressre pipie rather than 4" on return ?




quote:

ORIGINAL: chris11579

your waste water you should be able to pump it on to your garden and use it to water your plants
mine love it last year as it feeds them as well.


Perhaps if I went with a tap valve option where can go to Sewer or onto Garden would be best option. Years ago i had my waste flow into garden however koi were small then, Bit worried about garden turning into a sewer with larger Koi.

quote:

ORIGINAL: finchys koi

hi m8 nothing is ever easy but is there any reason why you can not turn your pond round 180 degrees this then would give you another 3 ft to play with just a thought


Unfortunatly cannot as would take over to much of patio area and the boss would go mad!! Also i do not think would look right. Maybe able to stretch an extra foot wide at most.



Cheers for all your replys.

< Message edited by 69cou -- 10/1/2010 9:33:38 AM >

(in reply to chris11579)
Post #: 14
RE: New pond build through Jan/Feb whilst on Garden Leave - 10/1/2010 10:55:12 AM   
finchys koi

 

Posts: 286
Joined: 3/3/2008
From: cirencester
Status: offline 		ok as im a foundation engineer i think you have it right with the filter area near the house.i would dig the pond first, level to your depth you require bottom drain in the middle then the base and below ground i would shutter the pond wall which then would be poored with concrete (c35) this would become a ring beam,making sure that when the floor is poored you bring up reingforcing steel 45 degree is the best which in turn will link into the ring beam then build your block work of the ring beam foundation(ps make sure you poor the ring beam about 3" below ground as if you need to move easy to cover over)this way no worries about the house and would be bomb proof,this is how i always build my ponds and nothing will move anywhere any queastions please ask

(in reply to 69cou)
Post #: 15
RE: New pond build through Jan/Feb whilst on Garden Leave - 11/1/2010 2:31:36 PM   
69cou


Posts: 101
Joined: 30/12/2009
From: Kent nr Maidstone
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: finchys koi

ok as im a foundation engineer i think you have it right with the filter area near the house.i would dig the pond first, level to your depth you require bottom drain in the middle then the base and below ground i would shutter the pond wall which then would be poored with concrete (c35) this would become a ring beam,making sure that when the floor is poored you bring up reingforcing steel 45 degree is the best which in turn will link into the ring beam then build your block work of the ring beam foundation(ps make sure you poor the ring beam about 3" below ground as if you need to move easy to cover over)this way no worries about the house and would be bomb proof,this is how i always build my ponds and nothing will move anywhere any queastions please ask



I am probably being a bit thick with regard to ring beam and reingforcing steel 45 degree is the best which in turn will link into the ring beam then build your block work. Can you explain in very simple terms for me. Or even post any pictures of similar. I think I understand it however just in case!


Great tip "ring beam about 3" below ground" this is one of those that seems tiny idea however will be important in the future.


Where are my drain running??

Could not get man hole up looks like i need a special tool.

Well tried the local council for drainage plans to see if will confirm where foul water and gutter water pipe work may be laying. Prying not under area i want to put pond.No luck they do not hold as NHBC done building regs.

Phone NHBC - Cannot release as need permission of builders and will be £60 if they are given permission will send me an application form.

Phone Berkeley Homes - Awaiting call back all afternoon.

Frustrated at the waste of most of another day, 3pm, I have started digging pilot hole in area where I suspect may foul pipe may connect my man hole to next door neighbours. Down 2 1/2 ft so far in a 3ft square. I think will quit now as light is going more tomorrow morning.

Thanks




< Message edited by 69cou -- 11/1/2010 4:19:50 PM >

(in reply to finchys koi)
Post #: 16
RE: New pond build through Jan/Feb whilst on Garden Leave - 11/1/2010 5:47:31 PM   
dazzafjr1300

 

Posts: 656
Joined: 25/1/2009
From: ipswich
Status: offline 		is that land behind the fench yours as you could put filter house there still have the use of drain and could use the planed filter area for bigger pond ?

(in reply to 69cou)
Post #: 17
RE: New pond build through Jan/Feb whilst on Garden Leave - 11/1/2010 6:27:36 PM   
69cou


Posts: 101
Joined: 30/12/2009
From: Kent nr Maidstone
Status: online 		Behind fence is Neighbors property.

Just an update went out and dug a bit further in pilot hole. Where i maked out original filter area. Layer seems to be about roughly top soil 6" Sand then Clay 18" then have come across some gravel. I suspect this is going to be due to foul waste pipes being ehere i hoped they would not. Too dark to see now so will need to update you tomorrow.

If this is the case i think it will put paid to that being the location for the pond. Alternative location now marked on this picture same outer dimensions.

Bad news,not as close to the house and will not have direct acess to cold water supply. In addition will ned to get out electrician to run correct armoured cables etc. Lastly takes up some of Kids plaing area.

Good news -( Very unlikely to be anything under the ground, so could get a mini digger. Perhaps sneek in a extra foot depth than originally planned and a foot longer. With window installed would still be able to see fish from house/patio.

Further update tomorrow on pilot hole and if i am goint to do woth alternative plan.



< Message edited by 69cou -- 11/1/2010 6:51:09 PM >

(in reply to dazzafjr1300)
Post #: 18
DRAINAGE PIPES MEAN CHANGE OF PLAN - 12/1/2010 12:52:56 PM   
69cou


Posts: 101
Joined: 30/12/2009
From: Kent nr Maidstone
Status: online 		As suspected have found the " surface water" drainage pipe where i thought it could be.





Seems too many negative factors around original planned location, so onto

PLAN B

Also got plans from developer which confirm "Foul water pipe runs 2 ft behind this one paralel.


See above alternative location rough picture. Will be doing a bit of planning now as this involves a bit of a garden redesign.
which will slow me down.




Can anyone give rough view on differnces in cost. Material /Labour


1) original design - 9ft by 6ft by 6ft original plan Box liner blocked above ground on a concreate collar. say 3ft of blocks above ground.


2 ) Alternative 11ft by 6ft by 7ft deep. ( 4ft below ground 3ft above all block built)


(i) Concreate bottom and block built rather than collar. ( Thinking cost of getting a concrete delivery for collar probably not much different than for doing the bottom?)


(ii) And for Box Liner & underlay vs Fibreglass.


Reason for query is that i could go from 2000G to 2500 G in new area. However if price difference not that great may do it properly with Fibreglass.


e.g am i looking at a £1000 difference or £2000 etc.


New location will be easy for acess as could take fence panel down.

Advantages

1) Could get a mini digger so hole could be dug relatively quick .

2) Skips could be put on neighbours drive behind white fence, or possibly a grab lorry

3) Concreate for bottom could be pumped straight in.

4) Delivery of Blocks etc would be right to build location.


Only issue is organising will be a bit more so will delay start a few weeks while i move some patio slab and redesign other areas and even move some planting from new planned area etc..

Sorry having some issues with KoiVista picture posting at the moment.


Update below.







< Message edited by 69cou -- 22/3/2010 8:17:54 PM >

(in reply to 69cou)
Post #: 19
NEW LAYOUT PLAN - Garden is a bit different now!! - 6/2/2010 11:03:12 PM   
69cou


Posts: 101
Joined: 30/12/2009
From: Kent nr Maidstone
Status: online 		OK things have been very slow with not much done in January with the weather.

Have been changing layout of garden to allow for new site for pond at ehe end of garden away from house. The location of the surface water pipes and foul pipes combined with isses of locating so near to house really means some alternative thinking.

You will see that the garden redesign without creating an complete buiding site has been keeping me busy.
Movement/cutting od Patio slabs, digging up and replanting some small trees trees , various plants and bushes as well as temporary movement of some of the grass to keep garden semi usable . ( Will probably re-turf the entire garden after pond build) Just a couple of Wisteria to move nexts, very deeply rooted concidering only in a couple of years.

Tell me what you think outline is 11ft by 8ft where i will be digging out 1ft collar. Thus 9ft by 6ft inner dimensions. Also to the right a 4ft by 4ft area for filer house. Tight however do not want to dig up Euclyptus tree. Needs to house PB85 + easy pod.

I am debating if i stretch lenth to 13ft to give me inner of 11ft by 6ft? Consious that this is quite a small garden already.


Quick one- Do i need to get building regs for pond, before works: ( have sort of started digging out footings for ring beam)

1) Particularly adding gully to tap into foul water drainage pipe or if simpler a soak away under ground. ( suppose pond water would add natural fertlization to soil?

Am worried if i do not provide a proper drain access, about this just getting blocked after a few bottom drain cleans? My last venture into Koi was when all Koi were small so draining into flower beds did not make garden smell like a sewer which i am concerned about. Also as Patio is not fixed down yet and pointed getting to foul water pipe would not be major issue.

See next picture in following post where I will draw out layout of underground pipes.

2) Will be getting a qualified electrician for electrics so again was not sure if i need to be buildings reg permission or just hold certificate from electrician?

Cheers

< Message edited by 69cou -- 7/2/2010 9:30:36 PM >

(in reply to 69cou)
Post #: 20
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